Two days ago I released a video in response to a question from a viewer regarding the Baker Act.
Anonymous Viewer
Hey Jane
“So I recently was discharged from a baker act that was put on me and had to stay in a hospital for over a week. I had to talk to the doctors about a treatment plan for when I get out. I have an appointment with a therapist coming up and I was wondering am I required by any law to see this therapist AND/OR take my medication that they prescribed me. Can I be baker acted again if I do not see this therapist? I was too scared to ask these questions to the doctors as it would probably raise concern to them and from my guess they would prolong my baker act in the hospital. Thank you.”
My video reply to him.
Between the age of 14 and 16 most teens in the U.S gain the legal right of consent. This includes the right of refusal of consent. An outpatient treatment plan is just that. A treatment plan. It is not a binding legal agreement. Outpatient treatment plan is mental health services paperwork. It is bureaucracy of the inpatient administration. The primary purpose of an outpatient treatment plan is to cover their asses.
Unless you have been court ordered you never have to take meds or attend therapy sessions outpatient that have been prescribed or made for you regardless of who did it or why.
there are now in many state “assisted outpatient treatment.” This requires by law that people take meds when they are discharged from hospital…and also show up to doc or therapy appts.
I live in such a state…
and so do a lot of people…
sometimes it’s part of the discharge plan.
By: giannakali on August 20, 2008
at 3:28 pm
What is the response if you don’t go Gianna?
The law says you only do 30 in a residential neighborhood but people speed anyway.
A law is only as good as you can reinforce it meaningfully.
Do you know of anyone that refused and what happened to them?
By: Jane on August 20, 2008
at 3:31 pm
they can be sent back to the hospital…they can be picked up by the cops…
I don’t know how often it’s enforced but the laws are in place to completely control people and since I’m a member of various human rights groups for the mentally ill, I know for a fact that these laws are at least sometimes enforced. I’ve known people who have to sneak out of state to escape forced drugging.
and a needle works very nicely when someone refuses meds orally…it’s very easy to force drug people…that I know you already know.
By: giannakali on August 20, 2008
at 4:47 pm
they can be is a lot better than
they are automatically sent or made to
*can be* implies an ongoing as needed basis.
*can be* and *might be* are a lot better than *will be, guaranteed*
I realize these the laws are in place and how and why. I am just challenging the notion that you should automatically equate that as having no choice but to obey Big Brother.
Big Brother can not be everywhere and I am guessing the Mental Health Big Brother can not yet cross state lines.
I am really surprised you stay there knowing full well if you ever are inpatient again, you could be faced with undoing all that withdrawal work.
That is a huge risk to take Gianna.
Anway, it does not surprise me that people leave the state to escape it, that is exactly what I expect and what I would do and what I would recommend to others. Run for life and for your health.
It’s not illegal to move to another state if you have mental health history….yet
I would love to hear from someone that fled forced outpatient care or was forced into it, I would make a PSA video about it.
By: Jane on August 20, 2008
at 4:57 pm
I am not afraid of being forced drugged. I do not fear losing control…if I don’t lose control or act in a way that others deem inappropriate I have nothing to fear…
CA is working really hard at getting forced outpatient treatment by the way…you can’t keep running forever…
will you leave CA if they pass the laws there?
By: giannakali on August 20, 2008
at 5:25 pm
I actually talked with a woman and helped her plan an escape from her state about a year ago…but I’m not in touch with her anymore…
she was facing being arrested.
By: giannakali on August 20, 2008
at 5:26 pm
We already have AOT Gianna
Called Laura’s Law
CTAC won in 2003.
In this state, failure to comply is not illegal or contempt of court.
Like yourself I have minimized it’s possible effect on me. I live far from any relative. No inlaw, child, cousin or parent could AOT me.
I highly doubt I would ever be suicidal again so depression problems would not land me there.
I don’t do hallucinogens or uppers so no drug fueled delusions on city trains or buses.
Meditation keeps me mania free. I actually have support these days. Before we got married we made a pact not to ever commit the other to these places.
Besides I know all the right things to say, I know my rights and what I can do.
As for running. My slate is clean here in Cali. I already successfully fled a state where I had a file.
California is my home and I have new skills like public speaking and persuasive argument and self confidence that I did not have in the old days. I would protest loudly and make heads roll if I was on the receiving end.
Even if I fled, as long as I did not have a criminal proceeding against me they could not cross state lines to force commit me. And as an added bonus the statute of limitations on accurate medical or mental health calls for a provider is ten days or some such.
A successful petition which could result in AOT mandate must be made based on accurate Dx and up to date knowledge of a person’s mental health.
Thus, simply taking a long vacation, say two or three months before returning, then the provider could not get an AOT order on you because they lack knowledge of your current mental heath situation
ergo, unless they had assigned someone to watch your home, after X amount of time the order to commit or AOT is null and void and they would no longer be interested in you.
You would need to be reassessed in order for them to give it another try. Assuming you stay out of trouble, you won’t be reassessed and the county and providers will move on.
I imagine if it really mattered, you could initiate court proceedings for a assessment and hearing from the safety of another state and then show up on the court date and prove you don’t need to be treated.
By: Jane on August 20, 2008
at 7:13 pm
Hi Jane!
I’ve received the Share The Love Award and the Friendship Award and I would like to share it with you.
Please come over and receive them when you have time. You can copy the images and paste them to your side bars or posts, and feel free to pass them to your blogging buddies.
Yours truly,
Ana
By: Ana on August 21, 2008
at 5:47 am
Dear Ana, thank you very much for your consideration and sharing. I will drop by as soon as time allows.
thank you kindly,
By: Jane on August 21, 2008
at 10:29 am